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Holly is the author of Sweetening the Pill or How we got hooked on hormonal birth control. If you haven’t had a chance to read this book and you’ve ever had any questions about the pill you need to get your hands on a copy ASAP! And if you haven’t yet listened to my first interview with Holly you’ll want to make sure to listen in! In our previous episode together Holly and I delve into the book and really hash out some of the most common side effects of the pill, and dispel some of the most common myths about the pill!
In today’s episode, Holly and I talk about her most recent project as an ambassador for Daysy and Lady-Comp. We talk about the implications of using tech for cycle tracking and why most Fertility Awareness Educators, myself included, tend to discourage the use of fertility devices with prediction technology.
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Topics discussed in today’s episode
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What are Daysy and Lady-Comp and how are they used for Fertility Awareness tracking?
- How effective are these devices?
- How do these devices “know” when you are fertile and infertile?
- Do these devices encourage women to continue relying on external technology instead of learning about their bodies?
- Why do Fertility Awareness Educators discourage the use of predictive technology for Fertility Awareness?
- How can these devices bridge the gap between hormonal birth control and the fertility awareness method?
- Can Daysy and Lady-Comp give women an option when they want to transition off the pill?
- Do these devices just take us back to the rhythm method and encourage women to count the days of their cycle?
- The future of birth control technology from IUDs to remote control birth control
- How do Fertility Apps use our data without our knowledge?
- The importance of meeting women where they are with their knowledge and comfort with their own bodies
- The role that devices like Daysy and Lady-Comp can play in helping women transition from hormonal birth control and gain knowledge about their bodies
Connect with Holly
You can connect with Holly on her website and on Facebook and Twitter!
Resources mentioned
- Sweetening the Pill Website | Holly Grigg-Spall
- Sweetening the Pill Facebook Page | Holly Grigg-Spall
- Sweetening the Pill: or How We Got Hooked on Hormonal Birth Control (book) | Holly Grigg-Spall
- Sweetening The Pill Book Review | Fertility Friday
- FFP 021 | What Hormonal Contraceptives Really do to Women | Sweetening the Pill | Holly Grigg-Spall
- Top 10 unexpected effects of coming off the pill | Lisa Fertility Friday
- Daysy Fertility Monitor
- Lady-Comp Fertility Computer
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Music Credit: Intro/Outro music Produced by Sirc of (The Nock)
Enjoyed the podcast. I have never heard the show before but came here because Daysy sent me an email letting me know about it. Just wanted to share my story. I had never heard about fertility awareness and was introduced to the whole concept by Daysy. I don’t consider myself a moron but I felt like a complete idiot at 35yrs old when I finally realized how my body works and that there are only a handful of days per cycle that you can get pregnant. I’ll have to admit that this really pissed me off and I could only reflect on all the stupid useless sh*t I was taught in school, and ask why the hell had I never learned this? So I really appreciate that you are trying to educate women everywhere on how their bodies work. I would be elated to learn one day that fertility tracking was mandatory curriculum. This is not something that I could have learned from my mom, as she heard about it for the first time from me. But I guarantee my daughter will have a Daysy the day she starts her period.
Now I am the user that Holly was talking about. Like I said, Daysy introduced me to FA and I have been researching like a beotch and learning a ton since using Daysy for the past year. So it wasn’t an obstacle for me it was an introduction to a healthier lifestyle and an awareness of my awesome body that I never had. And it is easy and accurate. I was so blown away about the whole concept that for months I tracked all me FA signs along with Daysy to see how they differed. And here’s the thing; they didn’t. Daysy was always spot on with tracking my fertile days and pinpointing ovulation. My cervical mucus especially (I don’t produce a ton which made it challenging) didn’t add anything significant to my data and I don’t bother with it anymore. I feel 100% comfortable with using my BBT as read through Daysy as my sole fertility tracking method. Why don’t you try using it in conjunction with your current FA routine and see for yourself how accurate it is. I think you would definitely be surprised. I promise, a glorified rhythm method, Daysy is not!
The thing about mucus is that it tells you more about your overall health and fertility that it boggles the mind. Mucus opens the window to the reality that you can use menstrual cycle tracking as a health tool. You learn that this is so much more than just “birth control”. Keep digging! Daysy may have been your introduction to the method but there is so much more to learn! I hope you go ahead and listen to a few more episodes!
Don’t worry, I already looked through all the podcasts and several are on my list to have a listen! Thanks for providing such wonderful information:).
Thank you for sharing your story! It is expanding my perspective about using tech with fertility awareness ?
Of course I do feel a little more like you on this issue, Lisa, but I do agree that tech can bring people in and there is a place for it.
The reason I wanted to comment was because I wanted to comment on the possibility of the efficacy where you said “HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!” to 99.3%. Daysy generally has a much longer time of red/yellow days (fertile or possibly fertile) than something like sympto thermal. Of course, both can get longer with irregular cycles, but it’s much more likely to happen with a temp only method and a calculation.
Anyway, despite the good efficacy, I still have seen more people get pregnant on a green light day than I would hope, so it makes it hard to recommend, even if there is a place for it.
Thanks for your insight Hannah. Yes in order for it to be so effective it would have to seriously overestimate the fertile window…so lots of red days. Was such a interesting conversation to have especially coming from the opposite perspective ?
Hi Hannah, Lisa,
There is a possibility that women will not follow the guidelines in using Daysy – re: when to take their temp, how often, etc – but we have only heard of one incident of pregnancy on a green day and that was down to user-error. We analyzed the charts to make sure it was not a technical issue, of course. Daysy is tested every year independently to gain that accuracy rating. If other women have experienced this, they ought to contact Daysy so the issue can be addressed. But, as I say, it is likely down to user-error.
I am certain you both know of women who taught themselves or were taught to manually chart and fell pregnant accidentally (I certainly know a few). Again, perhaps these incidences were down to user-error or a lack of full understanding, but it does happen, even if you pay an instructor to teach you the method fully.
With Daysy there is less possibility for user-error, but it does need to be used per the instructions provided. Like all contraception, no?
There is no other FAM-support device on the market that is medically certified and annually independently tested.
Holly
I should mention that the last part of my comment is an anecdote, so it’s not fair to look at that without looking at the overall efficacy of the device, which of course does come very close to something like the sympto-thermal method of fertility awareness (when both are used perfectly, I’m not sure how the typical use compares).
I was curious about your implication that Daysy requires a longer period of red and yellow days to be effective. For me personally, having cycles that are consistently 26 days with a variation in ovulation by 1 or 2 days, the most I have had in red days are 10 w/ 1 yellow day. I can’t imagine that it would be possible to cautiously avoid pregnancy with any less. How could the sympto thermal method require any less fertile days without ‘throwing caution to the wind’?
And I agree that a longer cycle would require additional precaution days. But that would be true with any FAM, no?
With the sympto-thermal method since you are checking for mucus every day and it isn’t based on calculations you would not have to over-estimate the number of fertile days. You would actually be able to identify exactly what days are fertile. There are specific rules when using the sympto-thermal method, so you are absolutely not “throwing caution to the wind”, you are simply using a different method. This could definitely mean fewer “red” days depending on the woman. A longer cycle may or may not have an extended fertile window depending on the woman, it depends on how many days of mucus she has.
Fertile mucus tells you when you are most fertile? But sperm can live 5-7 days. So I guess in my situation it would not be possible to get less fertile days unless they were shaved off the back end. But personally I would never risk it until I had a clear temp shift of 3 days. And that generally puts me right at ’10’ fertile days. So I assume that woman with longer cycles or later ovulation are most benefited by checking cervical mucus.
I also wanted to add that having regular unprotected sex with lubrication makes cervical mucus even more difficult to differentiate for me.
The benefits of checking mucus go far beyond telling if you are fertile or not. A woman’s mucus quality can tell her a great deal about her overall health and fertility. There are specific protocols for differentiating between mucus and semen, but of course the sympto-thermal method isn’t for everyone. Daysy and LadyComp offer an awesome solution to women who don’t really wish to check mucus or find it confusing. However, without charting mucus, women have limited information about their health and their fertility if that is something they wish to gain from fertility awareness.
It definitely depends on how regular your cycles are! If you haven’t charted sympto-thermal you can’t be sure how long your fertile phase would be using it, but in general your fertile days wouldn’t increase too much using lady comp/daysy if you have very regular cycles. I use sympto-thermal and have a regular cycle and my fertile period is generally 8-9 days.
Hi there! I love listening to these podcasts after getting addicted to FAM when I recently had my hormonal IUD removed. I use Kindara and love it with a passion. Are they selling to or sharing my data with marketing or research companies? I would love to get the scoop because it could be a deal breaker for me. Thanks.
You might want to ask Kindara. I would guess they probably do. They definitely have done a quite a few “surveys” with info in the app.
It’s best to write and ask them directly. But, as a rule, if you are not paying for something then *you* are the product – as I said. None of these app companies are non-profit entities. In general, the data entered into menstrual tracking apps is the mostly highly sought-after at this time and there are groups that will pay a premium for this information. The more options added – tracking your femcare product use, your diet, your mood, your exercise habits – the more money there is to be made. All free apps should provide the option that you *don’t* share your data, but be aware that if the company is sold this may no longer stand.
It is a pretty disturbing thought. You think they add all of those category options to help you track your symptoms, but it turns out it helps them collect more data to sell. Hopefully we can follow up with Kindara and get the scoop on what they do with that data!
Just want to remind everyone that Daysy is a stand alone bbt thermometer. You do not need to use an app to record your bbt. So it is the only one that is guaranteed not to share your data information.
I don’t know about kindara. It syncs wirelessly so I am not sure if you can turn that off.
Thanks for the responses! I am actually emailing Kindara now to try to understand what exactly they do with their data. Will let you know what they tell me! Love the show.
Thanks so much for this episode, Lisa. I’ve been seeing a lot of women talk about Daysy lately, but since my non-hormonal BC knowledge is all based on TCOYF and this podcast, I was super skeptical.
I thought for sure Holly was going to be against the Daysy too, so I was super surprised when you introduced her as an ambassador for the device. But I loved her approach to the use of tech, and definitely feel a lot better about the idea of the device after listening to this episode.
It was also really awesome to hear you being very humble and open to having your perspective challenged, but still sticking to what you know and feel. It’s no small thing to be able to admit there might be different way of looking at things. Actually you and Holly both did a great job of challenging each other but remaining open. It just gave me one more reason to love your podcast and your work and you as a person TBH 🙂
Thanks again
Thanks so much Jenn 😊
Funny, that bit about the copper coil sounds just like when the pill was first being experimented with and they were ‘offering’ it to women in Puerto Rico (it was either that or they would be sterilised). Scary stuff